Becky
it's hard to argue with how things are, even if i want to tell someone how i think they could have a better experience
its like how sages don't go around telling people 'look you will just die and be gone so chill'
the program runs too deep and there's just rejection
so we are left just having to love unconditionally
everyone gets 'liberated' eventually

Viv
Yeah, one way or another!
that's a dead certainty!

Becky
heheheh
dead
i am feeling something coming on, from that angle
not sure i should go there tho

Viv
why?

Becky
for the same reason no one else goes there. it's too direct. people turn away.
even after realizing no-self, i was not able to really see it that way. not until life arranged for experiences to show me, you know?

Viv
Yes. But not facing up to death as a reality may be the whole reason for a belief in a self. Or perhaps belief in a separate self comes out of the fear of death.... hmmm.

Becky
yeah it's a powerful koan
for me, the most powerful so far
i'm actually planning to go do some 11th hour vigil hospice work as a result
it's literally outside verbal expression

Viv
Fantastic. We do try to hide death away don't we. We don't realise that we're already dead in the sense that what we believe we are never existed.

Becky
yes
yes, exactly
walking dead

Viv
So there are zombies!

Becky
there are only zombies

Viv
That's where it comes from doesn't it? Zombies and vampires - but we've made that into a horror story!
Fear of the truth.

Becky
yes
the lie of self has made it into a horror story

Viv
Wow. Fuck.

Becky
yeah.
zing, right?

Viv
Totally.
Wow.
I've never been able to understand this fascination with the whole zombie/vampire thing, but now it makes sense ... in a twisted kind of way!
It really is a morbid fascination.

Becky
yeah
its like looking for home from a different angle is all
its made me take lovecraft from a whole new angle
embracing this awe-striking void from a sense of fascination in a way
if you read lovecraft you can feel his passion for those ancient evil gods he invented

Viv
I've never read lovecraft... but Yes, what you say is true. Yeah, zombies, frankenstein, vampires, ghosts, angels - all created as a form of undead. Immortal, but never human.
Because humans can't face being undead. Such a strange thing, because it's all undead. Dead and undead at the same time.

Becky
yep
paradox and mystery

Viv
I mean there is only life (or whatever label), Death is life. I mean, when the animating 'whatever' seems to leave something, the form carries on changing. Death is a continuation of changing form.

Becky
yep
and it happens without 'us'
it's hard to face, but that's it

Viv
Yes. And that's what we think death is. The end of me. But it was never there in the first place. Oh, what a strange, strange thing.

Becky
i'm always amazed
tonight we ate outside and watched a spider build a web on the table on the patio...
i could have torn the web apart so easily... the spider didn't know we were watching...
something animates it...
same thing that animates me watching it...
it's just insane

Viv
it's inexplicable. That great quote (Francis of Assisi, I think) What you're looking for is what's looking. Boom!